Contrary to what Justice Holmes wrote, we are free to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater. But we are NOT free of the possible consequences of our speech. If someone shouts "FIRE" in a crowded theater, and as a consequence people are hurt or even die, then the individual cannot avoid prosecution for those consequences behind a shield of freedom of speech, but we should not conflate the prosecution for the consequences with the freedom to shout "FIRE".
Falsely. One cannot falsely yell fire in a crowded theatre. If there is a fire and people get hurt running out, the person informing them is not liable for their injuries.
But, it was not a great metaphor in support of the government given the facts of the case, which, I agree, was incorrectly decided.
The “clear and present danger” standard was replaced in 1969 by the “imminent lawless action” test that came out of the Brandenburg v. Ohio case.
And while I’m probably considered a neocon in these circles, I wholeheartedly agree that WW I was a really stupid war and the U.S. should have stayed out of it. But we had one of our worst presidents in office, so.
Great work here Joel. The moral relativism that passes for the mainstream media’s standard fare, has resulted in a terribly ill informed public. That is how the censorship industrial complex got the upper hand in our national discourse. Thank goodness for the courage and deep pockets of Elon, and the access that he provided to the “Twitter files” that laid bare the extent of their treachery. It will take a relentless team of free speech warriors like the Substack crew of Matt, Michael, Alex, and Bari to keep up the pressure on the politicians and the media to prevent the continued decent into a dystopian culture of groupthink.
Thanks for mentioning the Twitter Files, Latigodad. That this was not front page in every major newspaper/outlet in the nation tells you everything you need to know about the legacy media’s priorities…and, in turn, why they have one foot deep in the tarpit. Cheers!
Do as I say (not as I do). ,If I did not say it, it is not the truth ( do not believe your lying eyes and ears).
Reality is mine to decide ( not what you experience ). Question: Who gave the small, different, dissimilar, the right to dictate the rules for the M A J O R I T Y. Perhaps the elite ( small letters intensional ) Who may largely belong to that dissimilar group. …..Jj
Free speech will eventually martyr many. However, free speech has a way of resurrection to truth which all will someday result in “every knee should bow.” So keep up the good work your future looks bright!
I hope that You, Anya and wider Family and Friends have a Brilliant Christmas Break.
And I Hope and Pray that “Santa of the South” (Jav-Mi) delivers you gifts in the form of a Smaller State, Sound Money and the Freedoms to Live Your Lives in the Best Ways that You Think You Should and Want.
Other than the word “Socialism “ the pamphlet was truthful. It was a wise course of action to avoid WW1. The consequences were WW2 and the Cold War. The creation of militarism in the US, the rise of the military, congressional, industrial, spy complex that has conscripted the lives and wealth of America. All decided by a few people and foisted on a propagandized population that swallows crude.
Socialism has become a bad word but it is only the cooperation of people for the common good.
It is such a bad word that, now, 1% own 80%. Exactly what they intended over the course of the last 100 years.
The first paragraph was persuasive. The following two were not.
Socialism is not a euphemism for cooperation nor was there ever a plan for a few to become so wealthy. And, so what? Have these ultra-wealthy deliberately harmed the 80%?
Individually, they can only wear one pair of shoes at a time and eat no more than the next person. And, like all other investors, they invest to profit.
Contrary to what Justice Holmes wrote, we are free to shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater. But we are NOT free of the possible consequences of our speech. If someone shouts "FIRE" in a crowded theater, and as a consequence people are hurt or even die, then the individual cannot avoid prosecution for those consequences behind a shield of freedom of speech, but we should not conflate the prosecution for the consequences with the freedom to shout "FIRE".
Fire! Fire! Fire! 🔥 🔥🔥
And a Merry Christmas and prosperous New Year to you also, Sir!
Falsely. One cannot falsely yell fire in a crowded theatre. If there is a fire and people get hurt running out, the person informing them is not liable for their injuries.
But, it was not a great metaphor in support of the government given the facts of the case, which, I agree, was incorrectly decided.
The “clear and present danger” standard was replaced in 1969 by the “imminent lawless action” test that came out of the Brandenburg v. Ohio case.
And while I’m probably considered a neocon in these circles, I wholeheartedly agree that WW I was a really stupid war and the U.S. should have stayed out of it. But we had one of our worst presidents in office, so.
Goodness gracious, where to begin with Wilson? Quite right: one of the worst. Merry Christmas!
Excellent piece, Joel!
Why, thank you!
Great work here Joel. The moral relativism that passes for the mainstream media’s standard fare, has resulted in a terribly ill informed public. That is how the censorship industrial complex got the upper hand in our national discourse. Thank goodness for the courage and deep pockets of Elon, and the access that he provided to the “Twitter files” that laid bare the extent of their treachery. It will take a relentless team of free speech warriors like the Substack crew of Matt, Michael, Alex, and Bari to keep up the pressure on the politicians and the media to prevent the continued decent into a dystopian culture of groupthink.
Thanks for mentioning the Twitter Files, Latigodad. That this was not front page in every major newspaper/outlet in the nation tells you everything you need to know about the legacy media’s priorities…and, in turn, why they have one foot deep in the tarpit. Cheers!
Thanks Joel! I dig your style, your sardonic wit, and your historical perspective.. Keep up your sarcasm!
a mob screams
vocal tsunamis:
my voice muted;
plaintive objections
washed seaward
like abandoned orphans.
waves subside,
reason at low tide
devastated by ignorance
turned away
i couldn’t stay.
neither slander,
rage,
nor cancellation
endure forever.
i wait to play
another day. rKf
Love it
Thank you sir.
Both the message and the delivery are worthy of praise. Artfully and smartly done, sir!
Kindly said. Thank you, good sir!
Do as I say (not as I do). ,If I did not say it, it is not the truth ( do not believe your lying eyes and ears).
Reality is mine to decide ( not what you experience ). Question: Who gave the small, different, dissimilar, the right to dictate the rules for the M A J O R I T Y. Perhaps the elite ( small letters intensional ) Who may largely belong to that dissimilar group. …..Jj
Yep… it’s rules for thee, all the way down. Best!
Outstanding! Thank you for this!
Free speech will eventually martyr many. However, free speech has a way of resurrection to truth which all will someday result in “every knee should bow.” So keep up the good work your future looks bright!
Joel
You Smashed this One!!
I hope that You, Anya and wider Family and Friends have a Brilliant Christmas Break.
And I Hope and Pray that “Santa of the South” (Jav-Mi) delivers you gifts in the form of a Smaller State, Sound Money and the Freedoms to Live Your Lives in the Best Ways that You Think You Should and Want.
Godspeed and Roll On 2024.
Viva La Substack!! Y ‘Andele!!
Brian
Hear! Hear!
It seems, the mob clamors for slavery.
Other than the word “Socialism “ the pamphlet was truthful. It was a wise course of action to avoid WW1. The consequences were WW2 and the Cold War. The creation of militarism in the US, the rise of the military, congressional, industrial, spy complex that has conscripted the lives and wealth of America. All decided by a few people and foisted on a propagandized population that swallows crude.
Socialism has become a bad word but it is only the cooperation of people for the common good.
It is such a bad word that, now, 1% own 80%. Exactly what they intended over the course of the last 100 years.
Working on a theory about this. Stay tuned…
The first paragraph was persuasive. The following two were not.
Socialism is not a euphemism for cooperation nor was there ever a plan for a few to become so wealthy. And, so what? Have these ultra-wealthy deliberately harmed the 80%?
Individually, they can only wear one pair of shoes at a time and eat no more than the next person. And, like all other investors, they invest to profit.
Freedom of speech is an epistemological eclecticism in the first place.